Charlie Bell, deacon, doctor, scientist and academic, discusses his new book Queer Holiness: The Gift of LGBTQI People to the Church.
I think this is probably at the heart of a huge number of disagreements that the church faces. One thing that does seem pretty obvious, though, is that there is no one way of reading scripture, and anyone who claims otherwise is talking nonsense. Scripture has always been read in and through community, and the scriptural record itself points to disagreements in those early communities. If we think about the early church, they were worshiping Christ long before the canon of scripture was put together. The Spirit didn’t stop breathing into the life of the church at the end of the Acts of the Apostles. So scripture can’t be read in a vacuum, and however much people try to tell us that they have all the answers, the truth is that they don’t!
Is it reasonable to expect certainty from the Bible?
Yes and no. Yes, in that it points in a very certain way towards God, and is a record of revelation. But as I say in the book, for me the Bible is the word but not the Word of God, which is Jesus Christ. That’s a subtle distinction, perhaps, but an important one. The Bible points us towards God and tells us about Him, but it isn’t a substitute for Him. So when we read it, we need to be careful what questions we are asking, and not try to fit it into our own box. It’s our highest authority, but we need to engage with it in a careful and considered way, rather than flinging ‘proof texts’ around or using particular verses to back up our own preconceptions.
Wider society is increasingly making steps towards the recognition and inclusion of LGBTQI people in various walks of life but why is the church lagging behind?
I think there are a number of reasons. For one, the church has really struggled to open its heart to the work of the Spirit outside its structures. Far too often, we have fossilised what are ultimately cultural norms into some kind of theological edifice, and that makes it terribly difficult to break out of. For some Christians, the oppression of LGBTQI people is a mark of orthodoxy. To me, that’s absurd – it’s blasphemous, even. The church would do well to look outside its walls at what God is doing in the world from time to time – we’re not yet adept enough at doing that.
Why can’t theology ignore human experience and scientific discovery when it comes to LGBTQI people?
Ultimately because God has given us human experience and scientific discovery as part of His creation. It’s just false to try to pit scripture against human experience and against science, and every time the church has done that, it’s embarrassed itself. Of course not all experience is morally neutral, and similarly science can be used by ideologies for harm. But human discovery about the world need not be seen in opposition to Biblical truth, and I do find it quite depressing that we are still fighting those battles today.
How has the culture of the Church of England lead to the repression of LGBTQI people to date?
As I say in the book, the culture of the Church of England has essentially been one of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ at very best, and at worst it has been one where LGBTQI people have been encouraged to tell half-truths or even lie about their lives and their loves. The obsessive policing of LGBTQI people’s sex lives – and particularly those of non-heterosexual clergy – is pernicious and found at all levels of the church. LGBTQI people have been seen as an object of debate and not as individuals, and whilst society has opted for more openness in recent years, we remain mired in secrecy and fear under the banner of ‘unity’.
In what ways has the Church of England’s patriarchal history influenced its attitudes towards sexuality?
I think the patriarchal power dynamic that still exists in the Church of England is something that really needs to be addressed before we are ever going to make progress. I’d add to that the blithe heteronormativity that is infused through everything, and the lack of introspection and the hypocrisy that so often accompany it. Of course, it’s easy for some ‘churchy’ heterosexuals to treat LGBTQI people as issues rather than as living, loving people – in the book, I use the example of those who go back to their wives or husbands whilst encouraging LGBTQI people who want to get married to ‘take up the cross’. Yet this power dynamic is deeply embedded in our structures – it’s not about personalities so much as about structural oppression and inequality. We can hardly lay all the blame at the door of the bishops and ignore the very real cultural problems that lie beneath.
How can the gift of LGBTQI people to the church be properly acknowledged and allowed to flourish?
In the first instance, we need to recognise that LGBTQI people are as much a part of the church as anyone else is. However much the church might want to put up barriers, there is no such thing as ‘us and them’, there is only the Body of Christ. A change in mindset like this changes everything, if we allow its implications to sink in. Continuing to exclude people for whatever reason – and particularly to achieve some kind of notional unity – is not only damaging, but it’s scandalous too – in fact, it’s sinful. A church that gathers for the Eucharist, that takes marriage seriously, that recognises the gift of creation – such a church cannot continue to exclude LGBTQI people and at the same time serve God. But it’ll take courage – I hope this book might spur more people to take that leap and loose the bonds that have held so many beloved children of God captive for so long.
Charlie Bell is an Academic Clinical Fellow in Psychiatry at South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust and King’s College London. He is also the John Marks Fellow, College Lecturer and Director of Studies in Medicine at Girton College Cambridge. In 2021 he was ordained deacon in the Church of England and is serving his curacy in the Diocese of Southwark.
Queer Holiness: The Gift of LGBTQI People to the Church is available now in hardback from all good bookstores and dltbooks.com.
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